On the subject of female leaders....

[Grackle]

It seems that it is an accepted fact that female leaders and deputies are forbidden to have kits. Several sites, including this one, enforce this as a rule. Some sites even consider it part of the warrior code. For proof they commonly point to Bluestar.

Now, I've recently read Bluestar's Prophecy, as well as the original Warriors series, and I couldn't find a single thing to suggest that this was an obligatory rule. "Grackle", you may object, "If it isn't a rule, then why did Bluefur have give up her kits?" I can only answer common sense.

Logically, she couldn't become deputy if was nursing kits. It simply wouldn't be practical to have a queen as a deputy. "Ah!" You say triumphantly. "So you admit that a deputy can't be a queen." Noooo, I said a queen can't become a deputy.

Okay, my argument is getting unorganized. Basically it boils down to this. I have read the books and the field guides and have found nothing to confirm the popular theory that a leader or a deputy is strictly forbidden to bear kits. I personally believe that it is a popular custom for a deputy or leader to voluntarily refrain from having kits becasue of how inconvenient it would be for both her and her clan. It would cause a stir of one announced she was moving to the nursery, but everyone would have to admit that there was nothing in the warrior code against it.

I'm sorry if I sound ticked, becasue I really am not. I suppose it irks me a little, but not that much, and I can understand the logic. And I really am not throwing a big fit about the rules of the site either. It is the warriors roleplay community in general. I've just wanted to throw my two cents in for a while now, and I guess I went a bit overboard. Please, if I am missing anything, tell me. I don't want to be narrow-minded.

[Fallout]

I agree with this. I don't recall anything about it in the warrior code, and I seem to recall the founder of WindClan, Wind or Windstar, having kits while she was a leader. I never thought that it was anything unacceptable. I just figured it might get in the way of a cat taking on the rank of deputy, like you do. But as for an established deputy or leader having kits... yeah, I never saw that being forbidden according to the books.

[Brackentail]

I don't think you went overboard, nor sounded ticked. I have to agree with your concept, because now that I think about it, I've never read anything about it being banned either. But, I've only read so much of the series, so I can't put in as much of a debate as you two could. I've only read up to half-way through Sunset. I do plan on re-reading the whole series and continuing at some point, though.

But, it's an interesting theory. I don't recall putting in my rules that female leaders specifically couldn't have kits, but I as well would somewhat discourage it. If a leader decided to be a rebel in the roleplays, that's fine with me, but going with Bluestar's story(which I don't know FULL details of, but the most of what they describe in the first series), I wouldn't recommend having a leader do such things.

Deputies are a different story, though. On one hand, it's a bad idea for them because it pulls them away from their main duties. On another hand, they could still be in the nursery and have another Warrior step in for them until their kits either became apprentices or until the deputy found another queen to nurse the kits. So really, even if a deputy had kits, they could still follow through with executing orders if a subsitute deputy had questions for the nursing deputy or something. It'd be a different theory and plot-line that most wouldn't put up with or attempt, because a lot of fans do seem to be under the impression that it's completely..."illegal" according to the Clan laws because of Bluestar.

Great debate to have, though, I'd love to see it go all the way out. I'd participate more if I read more of the series, too.

[Grackle]

Oh, thank goodness for that. I really felt like a brat posting something so... controversial, and am glad I don't sound totally unreasonable.

Of course, if a leader had kits, her deputy could step up until she was ready to take charge again. I agree it would be highly inconvenient, but it could be interesting.

Hmmm, now I am sorely tempted to find Robinfur a mate before this idea catches on.

[Fallout]

I can't imagine that this is so terribly controversial. In all my years in the Warriors fandom, I've never seen anyone make too much of a fuss about it, but then again I don't hang out in certain places where I know the fandom can be a little more fierce about things like this. I've always had this same thought, though. It's quite true that there's nothing mentioned to forbid it in the series.

[AmberEyedWolf]

Yea, the only reason Bluefur gave up her kits was so that she could become deputy instead of (cat-whose-name-I-cannot-remember), who would have been the downfall of ThunderClan. She definitely wanted to keep her kits, but she made a sacrifice for the good of the Clan, knowing that (leader's-name-I-cannot-remember) would never choose a queen as deputy.

But no, it is not forbidden, nor is it anywhere in the Code. It is just discouraged, like Bracken and Fallout pointed out.